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Clomiphene vs Enclomiphene for a subq daily protocol, what is everyone actually running?

Posted by busyliam in Protocols & Stacks - 3 points, 6 comments.

I am looking at putting together a fertility-friendly testosterone support protocol and want to stick with a SERM instead of going on actual TRT, since I still want to keep my own pipeline working, no? I keep going back and forth between clomiphene and enclomiphene and the half-life difference is what is throwing me off the most. Clomiphene has that long 5 to 7 day half-life which sounds like it would give more stable serum readings on paper, but I am reading that the zuclomiphene isomer drags up estradiol in some guys, which is the part I am not wanting to deal with, na?

Enclomiphene seems cleaner to me since it is just the trans-isomer, shorter half-life around 10 to 14 hours, and the research keeps pointing to less estradiol creep. But dosing it daily feels like I am pinning more often than I would like, and I am not fully sure how the pulsatile LH release actually behaves when you clear the drug that quickly versus something that hangs around for a week, you get what I am saying?

For those of you who have actually run one or the other, how did it go in real life? What dose and schedule worked for you, and did you notice anything weird with mood, libido, or water retention? Also did anyone try cycling off after a few months to see if endogenous production held, or is this the kind of thing you end up staying on indefinitely?

Comments

  • katie_sauna183: Honestly the half-life question is the one that nags me too. With clomiphene you get that long tail of zuclomiphene building up, and for me that showed as pretty noticeable water retention and a bit of a mood flatness around week three. Numbers I tracked had my estradiol creeping even on a moderate dose, which was the part I did not want. Switched to enclomiphene daily and the bloat settled within a week or so, mood felt cleaner, libido came back in a more natural pattern instead of that weird
  • busyliam: Yeah that E2 creep on clomid is exactly what I am trying to avoid, and the bloat plus mood flatness you described lines up with what I have been reading anecdotally. How long did you run the enclomiphene daily before the libido shift settled in, and were you splitting the dose morning and evening or just once a day, no?
  • coastal_labrat: Yeah the zuclomiphene buildup is exactly what worried me too tbh. I did like 3 weeks on clomiphene and my face looked puffy and i was just kinda blah mood wise. Switched to enclo daily and the bloat dropped off pretty quick. The short half life actually felt better for me too, more predictable day to day. Did you notice any difference in actual T numbers between the two or was it more how you felt on them?
  • busyliam: Yeah the zuclomiphene thing is what sealed it for me too, I was reading too many reports of guys holding water and getting that flat mood on clomid itself. Enclo subq daily feels much more stable for me honestly, but I have only been pulling bloods so I cannot give you proper numbers yet, next week I am doing a full panel so will know better then.
  • busyliam: 3 weeks was enough for the bloat and blah feeling to show up on clomiphene, no? That actually lines up with what I have been reading about the zuclomiphene isomer piling up over time. For me the half-life of enclo does feel like the cleaner option on paper but I am still stuck on whether the LH pulse response behaves the same way when you split the dose across the day, have you noticed anything there or is it more just smoother readings on bloodwork?
  • busyliam: Yeah the zuclomiphene buildup is exactly what worried me too tbh. I did like 3 weeks on clomiphene and my face looked puffy and i was just kinda blah mood wise. Switched to enclo daily and the bloat dropped off pretty quick. The short half life actually felt better for me too, more predictable day to day. Did you notice any difference in actual T numbers between the two or was it more how you felt on them?

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